BUCYRUS—Tensions over errors in committee meeting minutes resulted in a harsh exchange between resident Vicki Dishon and Interim Law Director Brian Gernert.
Earlier during the Economic Development Committee meeting, Dishon prepared to review corrections in the minutes at the beginning of public participation. Because Dishon had emailed the corrections needed to the committee the errors were already corrected.
Chairman Brenton Potter told Dishon he appreciated her efforts to correct minutes before they were approved rather than waiting until the second public participation opportunity after minutes were approved:
“So when I say I appreciate you coming up it makes me feel like you are more apt to help when you come up to correct the minutes during the first public participation as opposed to the second,” Potter said.
Later during the Finance Committee meeting, Dishon’s efforts were far from appreciated. Dishon pointed out inaccuracies in the October 6th meeting that centered around the hiring of the new council clerk. Clerk Sandy Slovick read a note she added to the minutes regarding her retroactive hire. She told Dishon she had added the audio. Gernert advised that the notation was adequate.
Gernert pointed out that minutes need reflect in an accurate way so the public could understand the nature of the discussion. A reader can go back and find more information and they can click on the audio and video link:
“We do not need to hire a transcriptionist or a court reporter to sit up here. I understand that you would like that but it’s just not a reality and that’s not what the Ohio Revised Code or the Sunshine Laws require. You can smile and give me those eyes all you want, but it’s accurate. You read those portions of the sunshine law manual. You are very good at holding those portions of the manual but those parts are actually highlighted by pages and pages of case law. Basically what it says is you need a summation of what was discussed, where it was discussed, and what was the resolution,” Gernert said.
Dishon responded: “When someone makes a public records request for the minutes then the minutes are what they’re given…”
Gernert interrupted Dishon: “together with audio reference. You like to quote the Cardington case, what Cardington tried to do, don’t laugh.”
“I didn’t say anything about Cardington,” Dishon replied.
Gernert lamented on the Cardington case but noted that our council always adds subsequent documentation and that the audio and video recordings are a permanent part of the record.
“It’s sufficient if I have to go to court,” Gernert concluded.
Dishon: “Ok. I disagree with you.”
Gernert: “Shocking.”
Dishon: “There’s no reason to act childish.”
Gernert: “ Who’s acting childish?”
Dishon: “Why did you have to say shocking?”
Gernert: “Because It’s shocking that you disagree with me about every point.”
Dishon: “Are you all here?”
Gernert: “Yes I’m here.”
Dishon: “Mentally?”
At that point, Chairman Wirebaugh stopped the exchange. Dishon could be heard saying as she walked away: “Well I’m sorry but he’s doing the same thing to me.”
Vicki Dishon provided the following comment to Crawford County Now:
“Gernert’s condescending behavior displayed towards me last night is nothing new as evidenced by prior Council and Committee audio/video recordings.
FYI:
Last evening, and in response to my concerns that the Oct. 6th and Oct. 20th Finance Committee meeting minutes had not been corrected, Interim Law Director Gernert stated that “Our Oct. 6th minutes need to state in a general way enough information so that the public could understand the nature of the discussions”. He further stated that minutes are not required to be verbatim and one can listen to the referenced audio and hear everything.
I am fully aware that minutes are not required to be a verbatim transcript per the Ohio Sunshine Laws and have stated as such at previous Council and Committee meetings. However, the Ohio Sunshine Laws also state that a public body must keep full and accurate minutes of the meetings.
I am also fully aware that the Ohio Sunshine Laws state that the Ohio Supreme Court has held that minutes are inadequate when they contain inaccuracies that are not corrected.
Finally, the Ohio Sunshine Laws state that a public body cannot rely on sources, other than their approved minutes, to argue that their minutes contain a full and accurate record of their proceedings. I remind Gernert that the audio recordings are merely used to prepare the written minutes and it is only the written approved minutes that the public body can rely on during any court proceeding.
At no time have I requested that minutes be prepared verbatim.
I have, however, requested that inaccuracies be corrected.
Plain and simple. If the audio recording has John Doe stating that 2 + 2 is 4, but the minutes recite that John Doe stated that 2 + 5 is 7, the minutes need to be corrected. Why is that so difficult for Council and the Interim Law Director to understand and accept?”